Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Hybrid Classes?  (Read 641 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Yareb
Heroic Member
***

Soul: +7/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 316


The greatest mage this world has never seen . . .


View Profile WWW
« on: April 06, 2009, 04:52:45 PM »

So Wizards launched a Player's Handbook 3 preview today regarding hybrid classes. These classes do exactly what the article says: they compromise depth of ability (and, by extension, depth of focus on one role) for increased flexibility. The mechanic so far split a the core classes into 2 halves. Then, you choose to classes and combine the halves together to get a whole. For all of you other subscribers out there, the link is here.

EXCERPT:
Creating a Hybrid Character
If you want to make a hybrid character, pick the two classes that you want to combine, and then read the
entries for the hybrid versions of them. This preview provides hybrid versions of the classes in the Player’s Handbook as well as the swordmage. The rest of this section details how to combine the elements in the two hybrid classes.
   Armor Proficiencies: You gain only the armor proficiencies that are possessed by both of your classes. For example, a fighter/rogue would gain proficiency with cloth armor and leather armor only.
   Weapon Proficiencies: Combine the weapon proficiencies given for each of your classes. For example, a cleric/rogue gains proficiency with simple melee weapons, simple ranged weapons, shuriken, and short swords.
   Implements: You can wield the implements of both classes, and you can use implement powers from either class (and from those classes’ paragon paths) through the implements of either class. For example, a cleric/warlock can use implement powers from
either class through holy symbols, rods, and wands.
   Bonus to Defense: You gain the bonuses to defenses noted in both hybrid class entries. Bonuses to the same defense add together. Some hybrid class entries give you a choice of which defense to apply a bonus to.
   Hit Points at 1st Level: To determine your hit points at 1st level, add together the hit points at 1st level noted in both hybrid class entries. Then add your Constitution score to the result.
   Hit Points per Level Gained: To determine the hit points you gain at each new level, add together the values noted in each of your hybrid class entries. For example, a cleric/fighter gains 5 hit points at each new level (2 for cleric + 3 for fighter).
   Healing Surges per Day: Add together the healing surges per day noted in both hybrid class entries. Then add your Constitution modifier to the result.
   Class Skills: To create your list of class skills, combine the class skills noted for the two hybrid classes.
   Trained Skills: You gain three trained skills, chosen from your list of class skills. Some hybrid class entries grant extra trained skills, which must be taken from that class’s skill list, not from the combined list.
   Class Features: You gain all the class features in both hybrid class entries. If a class feature has the word “hybrid” in parentheses after its name, it is a modified version of the class feature but still counts as that class feature for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.
   Powers: You gain one 1st-level at-will attack power from each class. You can choose your 1st-level encounter attack power and 1st-level daily attack power from either class. When you reach a new level and gain an encounter attack power, a daily attack power, or a utility power, you can choose that power from either class. However, if you have at least two powers from the same category (at-will attack, encounter attack, daily
attack, and utility), at least one of those powers must come from each of your hybrid classes. Even if you later retrain one or more of your powers (or swap out a power thanks to a multiclass feat or other special option), you must always have at least one power
in each of those four categories from each of your classes.
   Example: Bergen, a 1st-level fighter/rogue, wants a mixture of powers from his two classes. He selects cleave (fighter) and deft strike (rogue) as his at-will attack powers. He then selects steel serpent strike (fighter) as his 1st-level encounter attack power and blinding barrage (rogue) as his 1st-level daily attack power. When Bergen reaches 3rd level and gains another encounter attack power, he must select the new power from the rogue class, since he already has a fighter encounter attack power. Alternatively, he could use retraining to replace steel serpent strike with king’s castle, a 1st-level rogue encounter attack power, and then choose a 3rd-level fighter encounter attack power.
   When Bergen reaches 7th level, he can choose his new encounter attack power from either the fighter class or the rogue class, since he already has one encounter attack power from each.

And here's the hybrid cleric as an example of a hybrid half:

HYBRID CLERIC
A hybrid cleric offers useful healing to an adventuring party, but less than a full-fledged cleric. A hybrid cleric gives up the versatility of the Channel Divinity and Ritual Casting class features.

HYBRID CLASS TRAITS
Role: Leader
Power Source: Divine
Key Ability: Strength or Wisdom
Secondary Abilities: Charisma, Wisdom

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide, chainmail
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, simple ranged
Implements: Holy symbols
Bonus to Defense: +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 6
Hit Points per Level Gained: 2
Healing Surges per Day: 3

Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal
(Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Religion (Int)

Class Features: Healer’s Lore, healing word (hybrid)

Healer’s Lore
This class feature functions exactly as the cleric class feature (Player’s Handbook, page 61).

Healing Word (Hybrid)
You gain the cleric power healing word (Player’s Handbook, page 62). The power functions as normal, except
that you can use it only once per encounter.

Interesting concepts. I think that I want to try one out . . .
What do you guys have to say?
Logged
BusDriver
Rust Monster Crew
Paragon Member
*

Soul: +12/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 522


Winner of "Last post wins..." Thread!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2009, 05:28:07 PM »

First, is the players handbook 3 going to bring in new classes? I thought we were waiting on the monk and the psionics, not sure what others? If they are doing hybrid classes, will there still be benefits to doing multi class anymore? Or will that be usless? If you choose to play a hybrid, can you at some point cut it off and just finish out one class? Or pick up on a hybrid class later on down the line? Seems like this is a more true "multi-classing" than their current option. It's interesting.
Logged
Yareb
Heroic Member
***

Soul: +7/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 316


The greatest mage this world has never seen . . .


View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2009, 10:31:16 AM »

I would say that the PH3 will definitely introduce some new classes. However, the hybrid option isn't really the best. In fact, right now it's looking like it's sort of a disadvantage. You are just too spread out to be as effective as you would be if you just went with one class. That said, multiclass feats aren't going to go anywhere. Multiclass allows you to have depth of ability in one position and accentuate that with stuff from another class. What hybrid is trying to do is take two completely different things and throw them together. From the way 4E is put together, I don't see that being a very attractive option unless they do some reforming.

I would agree that this is more true multiclassing, but it's too true, too true to be cool in 4E. You won't be able to pick it up down the line, and you won't have to opportunity to really expand upon one class or the other. It is very, very true; you are the member of TWO classes. But this is a Playtest article after all.
Logged
fliprushman
CRMC
Heroic Member
*

Soul: +9/-2
Offline Offline

Posts: 446



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2009, 08:19:48 PM »

A playtest article, for paying members only.  :'(
I really think they should have put the playtest out to the public since not all of the public purchases the insider stuff and a playtest should encompass more.  Even though it's supposed to be an incentive to buy the insider account, I don't really see it as a good model for the game to evolve through play.

I must say though, this hybrid idea is a good start in multiclassing.  I mean, as multiclassing works now, you have to sacrifice 4 feats to function as a member of that other class but you don't get some of the cool class features that are available unless, like in the case of the martial characters, you take up the some of those new multiclass feats.  So you are expending a large amount of your feats so that you can function like a memeber of that class.  I'd rather not have to spend my feats and just get the class, even though you have to balance the two classes.

Interesting thought though, how does this work with multiclass feats.  Could you ultimately act as if you were three classes?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 08:24:23 PM by fliprushman » Logged

Yareb
Heroic Member
***

Soul: +7/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 316


The greatest mage this world has never seen . . .


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2009, 07:16:11 AM »

Unless they make some kind of rule against it, I don't see why you couldn't hybrid and then multiclass. That could really turn out interesting.
Logged
Damionte
Rust Monster Crew
Heroic Member
*

Soul: +4/-5
Offline Offline

Posts: 300



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2009, 01:04:04 PM »

Every time they release something game changing it makes me want to just stop playing all together. I don't want to have to keep remaking dudes when newer options come out. I'd rather just wait till their done putting out rules so I can make a character.

... at which point they'll put out 5th edition and just piss me off more.
Logged

Dzorne  Now playing in "The Second Darkness" by - Mythknight
Thandrim
Global Moderator
Paragon Member
*

Soul: +8/-2
Offline Offline

Posts: 696



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2009, 03:44:41 PM »

Well until I see otherwise and can really study it. . .
Logged

Well that sounds like a perfectly reasonable ide-- wait what? -- Thandrim
Poor_Knight
Administrator
Epic Member
*

Soul: +18/-2
Offline Offline

Posts: 1208



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2009, 06:06:43 PM »

Every time they release something game changing it makes me want to just stop playing all together. I don't want to have to keep remaking dudes when newer options come out. I'd rather just wait till their done putting out rules so I can make a character.

... at which point they'll put out 5th edition and just piss me off more.

Wait - weren't you the splat book queen? Or was that Shawn? Cheesy

I was the one who always groaned whenever a new book came out and I;d see you guys with it, picking out the power-gamer optimizer pieces from it.

I've turned a new leaf in 4E. I say bring it. I even give players a free update when a new book comes out. Because nothing sucked more than looking at the character you wish you could have made.

But I too am leery about dual-classing.
Logged

geektom
Rust Monster Crew
Heroic Member
*

Soul: +1/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 146



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2009, 05:22:45 AM »

I thought about multi-classing my current Rogue with the Wizard based feat, but there is just no advantage to it in 4th ed imo. You give up too much.
Logged
Mythknight
Rust Monster Crew
Heroic Member
*

Soul: +1/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 174


SILENCE! I keel you!


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2009, 07:36:04 AM »

Every time they release something game changing it makes me want to just stop playing all together. I don't want to have to keep remaking dudes when newer options come out. I'd rather just wait till their done putting out rules so I can make a character.

... at which point they'll put out 5th edition and just piss me off more.

Wait - weren't you the splat book queen? Or was that Shawn? Cheesy

I was the one who always groaned whenever a new book came out and I;d see you guys with it, picking out the power-gamer optimizer pieces from it.

I've turned a new leaf in 4E. I say bring it. I even give players a free update when a new book comes out. Because nothing sucked more than looking at the character you wish you could have made.

But I too am leery about dual-classing.

That was Darryl. I was close behind though.
Logged

SILENCE! I keel you!
Damionte
Rust Monster Crew
Heroic Member
*

Soul: +4/-5
Offline Offline

Posts: 300



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2009, 01:12:03 PM »

No that was me. It's not that I don't liek the splat books, I just don't like sitting through the constant newness. They need to get these books released as fast as possible. Smiley
Logged

Dzorne  Now playing in "The Second Darkness" by - Mythknight
jstgtpaid
Heroic Member
***

Soul: +3/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 114



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2009, 06:36:14 PM »

hmm, I am very concerned about the multi-classing.  I guess now that they have opened that can of worms, they will have to have a hybrid options as part of every new class they put out.  Why the designers would do that to themselves I dunno?

Anyway, from a player perspective I am more concerned about the mutated hybrids that show up in the party.  Can I count on my striker guy doing striking effectively?  Will our leader be torn between leading and controlling?  Will we all die because when we need healing we find our cleric bard can only sing songs!

Logged

Chuck Norris counted to infinity - twice.
Poor_Knight
Administrator
Epic Member
*

Soul: +18/-2
Offline Offline

Posts: 1208



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2009, 07:16:50 AM »

Yes - I think this is going to complicate things drastically. I can appreciate having more options but this seems to be straying away from the simplicity of 4E. Encounter building will take more time as you now have to consider the true capabilities of each PC.
Logged

Yareb
Heroic Member
***

Soul: +7/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 316


The greatest mage this world has never seen . . .


View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2009, 02:19:14 PM »

I don't know, but an isolating avenger/orbizard wizard sounds really juicy to me . . .
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to: